tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post2587580560085958772..comments2024-03-17T23:41:39.161-06:00Comments on Steampunk Scholar: Perdido Street Station by China MiévilleMike Perschonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-77623330576326782112017-04-08T19:23:41.143-06:002017-04-08T19:23:41.143-06:00Yag was a rapist. His admirable acts and his help ...Yag was a rapist. His admirable acts and his help to Isaac notwithstanding, he can't put back what he took. <br /><br />Isaac cannot look at Lin without seeing a victim of rape and of the denial of her own choices. All of them. <br /><br />Through Isaac, Yag learns that he is still of value to the world and to himself. <br /><br />I don't see the ending as a problem or even negative. I see it as Yag forgiving himself and finally moving on. It's Isaac and Derkhan who carry their losses forward and must forgive themselves.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04442999938182794290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-14030400384134863992014-03-24T18:02:47.273-06:002014-03-24T18:02:47.273-06:00Just finished it. It was exhausting - there was n...Just finished it. It was exhausting - there was never a break. The writing is spectacular! The story went a bit far with the numbers of alien creatures perhaps and the steampunk aspect got a little bit wide with the artificial intelligence but, it's a good read. Just not something to consider "light reading". Reminded me quite a bit of Stephen Donaldson's works.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09865516503722560534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-45604883805252840702013-09-16T06:49:15.287-06:002013-09-16T06:49:15.287-06:00Great insights, Corrupt - thanks for joining the c...Great insights, Corrupt - thanks for joining the conversation!Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-78553882998424326112013-09-13T23:54:05.157-06:002013-09-13T23:54:05.157-06:00Just found the blog, read all the posts as this is...Just found the blog, read all the posts as this is among my favorite books. My copy hardly holds together from the times i have read it and lent it out. <br />The ending makes sense given what I see as themes of loss, and transformation: Derkhan loses Benjamin Flex and her role as reporter, and becomes an actor in events; Isaac loses his career and his lover, becoming able to do anything (except what he wants most); Lin goes from self-expression to losing her self; Yagharek loses his dream, but finds a new reality. It's definitely depressing, but I don't feel cheated. To me, there is an internal logic.Corrupthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05567711184831955170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-38963542341496903082013-08-12T01:01:23.798-06:002013-08-12T01:01:23.798-06:00I too was disappointed by the ending, which I find...I too was disappointed by the ending, which I find is blotted by Isaac's tired regression to Christian sentimentality as well as the human exceptionalism of the final sentence (so assiduously avoided throughout the rest of the novel).reve_etrangehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02642919514939647618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-43785404682032728612013-07-15T23:11:03.212-06:002013-07-15T23:11:03.212-06:00There is no prequel novel to Perdido. I think Jack...There is no prequel novel to Perdido. I think Jack's an example of how Mieville has Bas-Lag firmly fixed in his head, and so someone can jump in without warning, and it makes sense, because we haven't been exposed to the whole narrative space. <br />Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-51784377684749604212013-07-15T02:50:46.513-06:002013-07-15T02:50:46.513-06:00Gotthammer, just discovered your blog - it's a...Gotthammer, just discovered your blog - it's a good read - as was Perdido... however, who the hell was Jack Half A Prayer?? Did I miss something earlier in the book?? Was the character featured in a prequel novel that I am unaware of?Michael Reidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00033083599092593491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-63337365710762091502012-04-04T09:11:11.147-06:002012-04-04T09:11:11.147-06:00Did anyone else find the Weaver really funny, some...Did anyone else find the Weaver really funny, somehow, sometimes? The way it pats the soldiers on the head like dogs and dresses up the protagonists in fine clothes to set them down in the sewers certainly has something funny. It's probably a streak of Mervyn Peake where weirdness often verges on the absurd and humorous, and this is arguable also the case in Lovecraft (as would explain the abundance and ease of parody). And strangeness and humour are closely linked, of course. Anyway, it's just something I noticed in my overall enjoyment of this creation.mathiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04936865674329335292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-10260227769001738602011-11-07T10:06:17.157-07:002011-11-07T10:06:17.157-07:00Evan, I agree, though not necessarily by the Weave...Evan, I agree, though not necessarily by the Weaver's hand. The crisis energy was as likely an option. I've read some convincing arguments contrary to yours and mine, but none that sell me entirely. Thanks for your input.Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-47512015887020375872011-11-06T21:56:29.142-07:002011-11-06T21:56:29.142-07:00I was very disappointed by the ending. Personally...I was very disappointed by the ending. Personally, I felt Yagharek redeemed himself for his crime through his actions. Honestly to me the only way to conclude this book is this: Yagharek at the end should have jumped off the edge of the building to commit suicide. The Weaver--in its guilt and regret for killing all the Slake Moths--would have caught him and said possible: TOO MANY WINGS HAVE BEEN CLIPPED BY OUR WEAVING...etc <br /><br />Basically The Weaver would have stopped Yagharek from committing suicide and taken him to the "web aspect" and reattached his wings. Don't say the Weaver couldn't have done this because we all know a dancing spider god is capable of almost anything.Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17549387935400501539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-71910256995492467812011-11-06T21:50:53.834-07:002011-11-06T21:50:53.834-07:00The logical conclusion to PSS should have been thi...The logical conclusion to PSS should have been this: Yagharek should have attempted to kill himself when he was betrayed by Isaac. As he was falling The Weaver would have caught him. The Weaver should have said something along the lines that TOO MANY WINGS had been clipped (his regret at killing the Slake Moths) so to make the web PRETTIER he would restore Yagharek's wings...don't tell me the Weaver couldn't do this. It's a mad spider God. That to me would have made Perdido Street Station complete. Yagharek deserved compensation for all his selfless acts.Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17549387935400501539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-22097205752871528562011-03-04T08:23:56.882-07:002011-03-04T08:23:56.882-07:00Chelseagirl47, when you compare PSS with modernist...Chelseagirl47, when you compare PSS with modernist fiction, then yes, it's got a lot more sunlight than I give it credit for. Comments like yours make me re-think my own perspective on it, much the same as in my classes when a student offers a very thoughtful alternative to my interpretation or explication. I'm really encouraged to hear about steampunk reading groups like yours: I'm often disheartened by how many steampunk fans readily admit they haven't really read any steampunk. I'm further encouraged by how measured your response is - also too often, I hear "steampunk IS about social commentary" or "steampunk IS inherently optimistic" (I may have even said such in my early research days), and so I'm glad for your moderate, yet still opinionated, response to the post. <br /><br />I haven't read Imajica in a good long while, but I don't think I've read many writers who give you the sights and sounds and smells the way Mieville does. He's definitely a master craftsman at secondary world building.<br /><br />The gaming aspect is tied to the "pursuit of monsters" format: Mieville's gaming glee is far more subtle than lesser writers', and so it isn't glaringly obvious. Rather, other gamers recognize certain aspects, like the Weaver, a character based on a giant spider creature in the D&D Monster Manuals. <br /><br />Thanks for your thoughtful comment. All you Mieville fans' comments make me want to change my planned schedule for the year and work through the other Bas-Lag novels, just to keep this conversation going!Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-89638864803029966522011-03-04T05:31:34.069-07:002011-03-04T05:31:34.069-07:00I recently reread Perdido Street Station, with a l...I recently reread Perdido Street Station, with a local steampunk reading group, and am working through my own thoughts about it.<br /><br />I both agree and disagree about the ending: I do think Mieville falls into a traditional "pursuit of monsters" format, and the last quarter or so of the book moves from something more genuinely fresh to something a bit more by-numbers. I'm interested in your connection between gaming and the novel's plot -- I have no gaming background, and make my own connections of PSS as a Dickensian social problem novel mated with a gleeful engagement with pulp sf. <br /><br />I don't agree re. Yagharek, though -- others have expressed it perhaps better than I, but I do think that pulling the rug out from under us like that is exceptionally effective, and in accepting that he can no longer be Garuda, and turning down the easy road to salvation-through-heroism with Jack Half-a-Prayer, Yag is finally ready to move forward.<br /><br />One of the things we talk about in the steampunk reading group is that some of the members see steampunk as essentially optimistic; utopian rather than dystopian. I tend to be drawn to the social critique (which doesn't mean I won't read something that's pure fun); I'm not sure I read PSS as quite so unrelentingly bleak as you do, primarily because of the characters, who struggle through these situations and don't simply give in. (Modernist fiction, I am looking at you.) It's a dark world, certainly, but one that I find myself inhabiting with fascination.<br /><br />Oh, in reference to inhabiting a world, I was surprised at your comparison to Imajica, for one reason only. I was disappointed in the Barker largely because while he created this dense imagined world, but I didn't feel as though he gave me all the sights and sounds and smells in the way that Mieville does here.<br /><br />Anyhow, thanks for a thoughtful post, and for the thoughts it generated!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-58751400391909219472011-02-27T17:21:14.361-07:002011-02-27T17:21:14.361-07:00Thanks for an exceedingly thoughtful and well-spok...Thanks for an exceedingly thoughtful and well-spoken response, iridiumfall. Comments like yours are why I started the blog, to have the ongoing conversation about these books. Thanks very much!Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-59656036457466983542011-02-26T10:05:53.934-07:002011-02-26T10:05:53.934-07:00Very nice review. I agree with you about the blea...Very nice review. I agree with you about the bleakness, especially regarding Lin, but I disagree about Yagharek. I think the Yagharek story is an example of one of my favorite things about Mieville's work, which is the acknowledgement of ambiguity and the challenging of expectations. One of the themes I see a lot in his books is the tendency of people (both the characters in the stories and by extension the readers) to put things into categories, good guys and bad guys, without having all of the information. This comes up in The Scar and The City & The City (great books - I like both of them better than Perdido Street Station. Just started Iron Council), and I think Yagharek's story fits the same pattern. It's definitely a usurpation of the way we expect the narrative to play out, but I like that. We've developed sympathy for him by the end, with the full knowledge that he's committed some unspecified but probably terrible crime, and therefore we expect that somehow that crime won't be so bad after all and that he'll get his wings. But that's not what happens -- the past matters, the story is always more complicated, and when we get a fuller picture it changes things. I like it when books challenge my assumptions and make me examine what I expected and why.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-47776846644276848322010-12-15T20:44:24.760-07:002010-12-15T20:44:24.760-07:00I had not! Very exciting, I'll have to track i...I had not! Very exciting, I'll have to track it down!Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-42092824355558804872010-12-15T16:37:20.774-07:002010-12-15T16:37:20.774-07:00Speaking of Mieville's obvious tweaking of tab...Speaking of Mieville's obvious tweaking of tabletop RPGs, have you tracked down the issue of Dragon Magazine devoted to New Crobuzon? It has quite an interesting interview, along with a ream of D20 adaptations of everything from the Slake Moths to the Possible Sword.D. Emerson Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00256908766879454432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-73752559491577440802010-11-15T16:25:34.240-07:002010-11-15T16:25:34.240-07:00My thoughts exactly, TGW.My thoughts exactly, TGW.Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-65863785576239783372010-11-15T15:01:52.772-07:002010-11-15T15:01:52.772-07:00I must admit, despite being a huge Mieville fan, t...I must admit, despite being a huge Mieville fan, the fact that nothing good ever seems to happen to his protagonists gets a bit much sometimes. The business with Lin felt particularly gratuitous - kidnapped, mutilated, raped and then mind-wiped, despite the presence of Motley who, according to Mieville's own set-up, would have been a far more appealing target for the moth. I feel that constantly pummeling the reader with misery is as flawed as the kind of sentimentality that Mieville criticises in Tolkien.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-7539336199343147322010-04-20T10:00:39.492-06:002010-04-20T10:00:39.492-06:00I agree with Gotthammer. Bringing Lynn back then b...I agree with Gotthammer. Bringing Lynn back then basically killing her again was not necessary. The ending with Yag was a slap in the face. I really enjoyed the book until the very end.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151205371989867552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-71612923359456661282010-03-23T23:16:36.910-06:002010-03-23T23:16:36.910-06:00Jay, I don't mind thinking. And while I'm ...Jay, I don't mind thinking. And while I'm not accusing Mieville of doing this, I do tire of people trying to be profound by being depressing. It doesn't make you brilliant necessarily, and that's what I think I'm writing against here. Holywood didn't come up with the happy ending, though they do pander to it, certainly.<br /><br />And I think Mieville has several cop outs, and Jack Half-a-prayer is one of them. I don't mind that though, since as I stated here, this is essentially a bug-hunt. I expect some "bail you out of the shit" moments. Despite my academic agenda, I do like it when things are just damn fun. <br /><br />Great comment btw. I appreciate feedback that's so well-thought-out. Thanks very much!Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-3055257582951322002010-03-23T21:43:54.391-06:002010-03-23T21:43:54.391-06:00Didn't the ending of the book make you think, ...Didn't the ending of the book make you think, though? Isn't that better?<br /><br />Was Isaac disturbed enough by the choice-theft to betray a guy he'd been to war with? Did he just use the situation as a rationalization to walk away from Yag in the interest of self preservation (easier to hide just himself, Derkhan and Lin from the militia)? Having worked out the Crisis Engine, was Yag and his problem of flightlessness just no longer interesting to the scientist? Is Isaac not as stand-up of a guy as we thought(remember Lemuel's death)? Was this extra mental/emotional stress just his tipping point after dealing with the old man that he had to use as moth bait? Was it a combination? <br /><br />After spending 500+ pages in the establishment of New Crobuzon as a depressing shithole, why would Mieville then turn around and polish that turd into a shining, uplifting tale of good feelings in the final pages? That would have disappointed me. We say: Keep the Hollywood endings in Hollywood!<br /><br />But, after having read the book twice and listening to the audiobook recently, my main gripe with the unfolding of the story is Jack Half-a-Prayer. He comes out of nowhere to basically save the day, and his involvement is never really explained. <br /><br />I guess it could have been the Weaver that put Jack in the situation. It seems possible given that the Weaver just sat there drawing pictures in the blood while the fight was going on around him. That seems like a cop-out, though. What do you think?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01028288646941961878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-45641595383039912622010-03-15T10:44:48.845-06:002010-03-15T10:44:48.845-06:00Just found your blog. Great post. I think the thin...Just found your blog. Great post. I think the thing I found most attractive about Perdido Street Station is the borrowing of steampunk aesthetics without the full-on Victorian flavor. Mieville's inclusion of analytic engines and rails and omnipresent airships provided a nice backdrop and made the use of the technology believable and inevitable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-7725788829152009352009-10-21T17:49:27.472-06:002009-10-21T17:49:27.472-06:00Thanks Colin, I appreciate you noticing the workin...Thanks Colin, I appreciate you noticing the working I put into being fair, and being aware of my own bias. You're welcome for the analyses. And so long as people like you are enjoying them, I'll keep them coming!Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-29942651235387745822009-10-19T22:35:49.204-06:002009-10-19T22:35:49.204-06:00Your literature analysis is excellent, both helpfu...Your literature analysis is excellent, both helpful to me in finding some new books to seek out and in it's own entertainment value. You are detailed in laying out what does and does not work for you in a book, and are fair in labeling the areas of the analysis that are more subjective and perhaps matters of personal taste. Thanks very much for your book analyses.<br /><br />Colin NeilsonSpectacular Publishinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01280224536199673939noreply@blogger.com