tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post7318802377910084892..comments2024-03-17T23:41:39.161-06:00Comments on Steampunk Scholar: Morlock Night by K.W. Jeter (1979)Mike Perschonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-2650410104906770552011-05-24T21:57:24.429-06:002011-05-24T21:57:24.429-06:00I like the distinction you're making between g...I like the distinction you're making between gonzo steampunk, and introspective steampunk. I've been listening to The Prestige on audiobook, and so have been considering that very thing in contrast to Jeter or Blaylock.Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-36432759405622651842011-05-24T18:56:58.737-06:002011-05-24T18:56:58.737-06:00I begin to see the point you made here. To parap...I begin to see the point you made here. To paraphrase via analogy: <br /><br />Steampunk technofantasy is concerned with magic clockwork rayguns and dirigibles that can weather storms and bank like an f-15. (intentional hyperbole)<br /><br />The technology or at least the attitude toward it in Winter's Tale is not magic-tech, but 'technological mysticism'. Real technology, like a steam powered printing press or a bridge, is so perfectly executed that it elevates the devotee into a mystical plane apart. <br /><br />My feeling is though that they could both be described as steampunk in much the way that both 'Wild Wild West' and 'The Prestige' are both steampunk; one gonzo, the other introspective.Jack Hornerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14734987287134347355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-72876423191833040052011-05-24T18:54:41.662-06:002011-05-24T18:54:41.662-06:00I'm not sure this was said on GSD, but I did s...I'm not sure this was said on GSD, but I did some digging, and found this in an email I had forgotten about:<br /><br />> Winter's Tale doesn't have any technofantasy. <br />> I think the techno-fantasy is what separates <br />> steampunk from urban fantasy in other time <br />> periods. Winter's Tale is exactly what you say - <br />> Urban fantasy in a PRE, not post WWI setting. <br />> It's a gorgeous book, but I wouldn't call it <br />> steampunk myself. The magic is really magic, <br />> not magic-tech. I know that might be a fine line, <br />> but in my research, it's a crucial one.Jack Hornerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14734987287134347355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-48936787286929570922011-05-24T17:02:20.607-06:002011-05-24T17:02:20.607-06:00You've answered the question yourself. I know ...You've answered the question yourself. I know I overtly, unreservedly stated Mark Helprin's Winter's Tale on the Great Steampunk Debate, but your argument is a strong one, and I clearly need to go back and do some re-reading. <br /><br />It certainly bears the hallmarks of what I've been reviewing at the site. I'm open to the inclusion of Winter's Tale, not only because of your argument, but also because it's a gorgeous piece of writing. I just haven't had time to consider it from a steampunk vantage point.<br /><br />Further, I've been reconsidering how to understand the use of the steampunk aesthetic - how much of the aesthetic is used, for example? I'll make this clearer when I update the Steampunk 101 slides sometime in the (hopefully!) near future.Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-42404435756407022012011-05-24T16:46:30.870-06:002011-05-24T16:46:30.870-06:00Ok, but here's what I don't get... Why is ...Ok, but here's what I don't get... Why is Morlock Night steampunk, while Winter's Tale is not? <br /><br />Ok, take away the obvious answers ( Jeter coined the phrase, and an offhand wave at Wells), and I would argue that Winter's Tale stands better on Steampunk grounds that Morlock Night.<br /><br />Both books are urban fantasies taking place in 19th century settings, dealing with immortal/ancient beings who wield mystic and<br />technological power (more so with Winter's Tale than Morlock Night).<br /><br />Winter's Tale is more in love with the machine than Morlock Night, which save for two artifacts, the submarine and the time machine, is more concerned with pulling details from 'London Poor' than any form of tech. <br /><br />Winters Tale is a love poem to the machine and the transformative power with which it can lift a person.Jack Hornerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14734987287134347355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-65270935556407420542011-05-24T13:25:50.483-06:002011-05-24T13:25:50.483-06:00Yes, Falkenstein's a good example of the mix. ...Yes, Falkenstein's a good example of the mix. Not familiar with "Druid's Blood" - thanks for the recommendation.Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-64449833449369822992011-05-24T12:30:41.623-06:002011-05-24T12:30:41.623-06:00I think it's clear that steampunk (long before...I think it's clear that steampunk (long before the coining of the word) was a visual style well before it was a literary genre, exemplified by the films of "The Time Machine" and "20,000 Leagues Beneath the Sea".<br /><br />The common idea of what steampunk was as a literary genre are probably based on Gibson & Sterling's "The Difference Engine", and the lesser known Michael Moorcock works. They had a stronger politicial/social sense, as opposed to being straightforward adventure stories. <br /><br />There's also a thread of mixing up steampunk and fantasy: Esther Friesner's "Druid's Blood" and the "Castle Falkenstein" RPG.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-39935613809249170552011-05-23T16:28:36.953-06:002011-05-23T16:28:36.953-06:00Camelot 3000! Love it, Jack. And yes, the tone her...Camelot 3000! Love it, Jack. And yes, the tone here isn't anything close to Wells.Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-34877321973562766622011-05-23T15:40:46.359-06:002011-05-23T15:40:46.359-06:00Fascinating book, but I'm a pushover for almos...Fascinating book, but I'm a pushover for almost any Arthuriana, and have been since I was a kid with Camelot 3000.<br /><br />While I had already read the forward in Langston St. Ives, what I missed more than Well's social commentary was his tone.Jack Hornerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14734987287134347355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-16600649712208456962011-05-23T10:54:48.162-06:002011-05-23T10:54:48.162-06:00That's one of the cool things about Steamcon f...That's one of the cool things about Steamcon from my perspective, Diana - you invited the original 3 from California in your first three years. Love it.Mike Perschonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335943113292616702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1069343736818411279.post-8725170106037600822011-05-23T10:45:00.542-06:002011-05-23T10:45:00.542-06:00Very good analysis as always. Of course I've ...Very good analysis as always. Of course I've always allowed magic and whimsy as components of steampunk. If people want to hear what Jeter thinks of all this, he is the guest of honor at Steamcon in October.<br />~DianaDiana Vickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17074210303291728939noreply@blogger.com